Congratulations on your 74th birthday. Some Nigerians say you are not from Niger State but from Ogbomoso. They even claimed that your middle name Badamasi was coined out of a Yoruba name- Gbadamosi. This is an opportunity for you to clear the air. Where is your root?
I had to answer this same question way back November 1962. I was in an interview with a Minister and some prominent Nigerians during my last year in secondary school. Somebody asked me the same question. First of all, I corrected the way it was spelt. 53 years after, I am glad answering the same question. The truth is, I hail from here – Niger State. My parents are from between Wushishi and this town (Minna). My grand-parents travelled to settle down here. So I think that says it all. But above all, there is nothing wrong from being from any part of the country but the truth is, I hail from Niger state. My parents and my great grand parents moved from somewhere and settled down here in Niger state.
There are those who still call us settlers in Niger because our grand parents and great-grand-parents came from somewhere but I have lived all my 74 years in Niger state, I think I am more than qualified to be called an indigene of Niger state.
Recently, the United States of America advised that what our military need most is training and not equipment to fight Boko Haram. Is this an indictment or an advice to our military? As a former Military President and a professional, what is your view on this?
I must admit that a lot of us were trained in America and quite a sizable officers of the Nigeria Army were trained in America, so it is not anything new to talk about training because they knew they had trained people. I was trained in America, I was in a place called Portsmouth in Kenturkey where I did my senior officers course, so you can see that a lot of us were trained in America.
where I did senior officer’s course. I was in Postgraduate School in United States where I did senior officers Management course I was a Brigadier that time so a lot of us were trained in America. They are right. There is an old saying that it is not the sophisticated weapons we have but the mind behind the weapon. I appreciate what they are trying to do. They have lots of experiences since after the Second World War, they have been involved in stability operations and support of countries which have gone into agreement, so I expect that they should talk about training.
Are you satisfied with the present steps being taken by the present administration to fight the Boko Haram? (cuts in sharply).
Yeah! They (Boko Haram) have to be fought I think the renewed efforts and steps taken by the Federal Government are commendable.
Towards the last days of the former President Jonathan, the insurgents seem to have been overwhelmed because we were almost celebrating but suddenly, they have staged a come-back and becoming more fierce in their attacks. Sir, what did Jonathan do that President Buhari: is not doing or doing wrongly that has brought these people back.
I think there is a general misunderstanding of the whole concept of insurgency, you can call it anything, instabiliy or terrorism. We are not fighting a regular army where you can confront them with sheer use of force and weapons to overwhelm the enemy, no, we have gotten a small trained army whose tactics was to inflict maximum casualty on his so-called enemy, inflict casualty on him when and where he least expects it.
The army is not fighting a conventional war, that makes it exceptionally difficult, they blow outbridges, the go as far as blowing up barracks, this is an unconvetional war. I tnink the soldiers are trained for it and they know this is the sort of thing they do. I think the public should be educated about this unconventional war.
Sir, cast your mind 25 years ago when your friend, Gideon Orkar planned to terminate your life, today, you are celebrating your 74th birthday, how do you feel that in the last 25 years, despite attempts to eliminate your life?
I will continue to remain grateful to God. The incident strengthens my belief that no matter what happens, if God doesn’t will it, nothing will happen to you. So it is a matter of believing that no matter what happens, either good or bad, nothing happens without the approval of Allah. I am grateful to God for sparing my life up to this time despite what we went through. Those of us who participated in combat we say thank God. I did not die during the civil war in 1969 which was some 21 years before the 1990 direct attempt on my life. God has kept me going, so I am very grateful, God has kept me and I remain grateful to Him and grateful to you all for your support.
So, how did you escape the Okar’s bullet?
(Adjust seat with calm and ponder for awhile) I can remember fairly well, I had some loyal officers who are supposed to be my protectors and my body guards. Initially they told me to leave but I told them no, I am not leaving for anywhere but they remained stubborn and later I took my family outside Dodan barracks and joined my guards. So we went out of Dodan barracks and we went to a safe house where we got in contact with loyal troops. May God bless Sani Abacha. Sani Abacha was the Chief of Army Staff, he got in touch with me, I got in touch with him and we sat down and talk on what we were going to do. Abacha and I rallied round the loyal troops and then I left my state house and joined Abacha in his house. (Pause) That is what happened.
The general belief is that the country is blessed with Elders, like you, who are in a position to advice leaders in authority and safe the country from the present mess. Is it that you don’t reach out to government or are such advices not heeded.
I think one of the most unique thing in Nigeria is that this is the one African country that Is specially blessed. There are about seven of us (former leaders) alive today and everyone of us have had his experience in one way or the other but the other good thing is that there is a forum where we all meet the current leadership, chat with him, talk about the situation in the country discuss and offer solutions to any problem confronting us. All of us are always free, we are very accessible to government, so we can either put across either in writing or talking.
Does it then mean that your advice are not heeded for us to findourselves in this precarious situation.
Which precarious situation?.
Things and times are hard for the masses…
Like what? Where are you from?
Do you travel with escorts? I think these are the challenges every government face and every government will face. The people and the government must come together. People should support the government and government too should come up with solutions to ameliorate the problem that every government face.
So, what is your assessment about the performance of the present administration so far?
That wouldn’t be fair. The government is still new. However, so far, I am confident that they are doing well, they have identified the problems and they look resolute in confronting these problems head-on and there are a lot of people in the society who are offering a lot of sound advice on how to move the country forwards and are not relenting.
No doubt, there are many challenges facing this country and in your candid opinion, what are the key areas you want the present leadership to tackle in order to forge ahead.
I must commend the present leadership for identifying even before and after the election some of the problems facing this country. Number one, it has to do with security and the President talked about it extensively. The security of lives and property, the security of the state, the security of this environment called Nigeria has been identified. And the second one has to do of course with the way we live, the way we walk and the way we behave, Corruption. The third one has to do with the economic development of the country. We should support the President towards achieving these objectives of ensuring security and wiping out corruption.
Still on corruption, President Buhari has launched strategy to recover some stolen funds. What is your take on this?
During the tenure of my boss, President Obasanjo he had a similar strategy and to be fair to him he made a lot of recoveries. So we should support what this present government is trying to do to achieve the same objective.
So far, do you think the strategy can achieve the set goal, bearing in mind the circumstance we have found ourselves.
If it is pursued resolutely, I believe it will achieve some degrees of successes especially with those who are stolen our oil.
To tackle the insurgency in the country, the present administration agreed to dialogue with the leaders. What is your take? Is it a welcome development?
The President have got it right, he said he will talk to people who are credible who have been identified as some of the leaders of the insurgency but so far, apart fronm one or two names, we do not hear any other name. I don’t think the government will like to talk to a vacuum, to talk to people who are not worth talking to as far as this issues are concerned. So the government is right of being careful to identify and talk if there is anything to talk about.
How do you feel as a top member of Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), a party that was in power for so long and now in opposition? Do you see your party bouncing back in 2019?
I think one of the good things we are experiencing in this country is that for 16 years there has been democracy and in democratic practices, a lot of things must have gone wrong somewhere and the right judges are the people and the people have spoken. I think it is natural they needed a change after 16 years and they did what is right, they did not go wild, they did not fight anybody, they used their ballot papers to change the government. I think this is the beauty of what happened, I look forward to such practices in the next 50 years of democratic practice in this country.
So, do you still see the party bounce back?
Don’t forget politics is what is happening now. They (PDP) will try and I hope they have learnt from their mistakes, what they did wrong, what they did right and what they can do now to re-launch their party.
How will you rate the role of the media in the just concluded general elections?
I think the media has been fair that is my rating. Very unusual but you are fair. You didn’t show or play partisanship, you saw and said it the way it was. I have seen the media during a lot of other elections but this particular one you were very, very fair. And I hope that will be the trend.
Hope you are not missing your friend – Chief M.K.O Abiola? (cuts in)
Let me see. Last week, I brought out a letter he wrote to me and I read it. That shows we are still spiritually connected. I am missing him
What was the content of the letter?
Do you ever reveal such content?
What is your favourite meal sir.
Favourite meal? I eat anything. I eat anything legal. I don’t eat anything forbidding by my religion. For example, I don’t eat Pork. So, give me anything besides these especially cereals carbohydrate e.t.c, I will eat very well.
Sir let’s talk Sports. Your political god-son and former Abia State governor is being dragged into FIFA Presidency… (cuts in)
I will vote for him. If he makes a very good outing, talking about his interest in sports especially football. The Enyimba, if you can still recall that he eventually brought them out, he is very interested in soccer and if he is that recognised outside this country, I dont think there is anything wrong in trying his best to be recognised in the world. That is why I said if I have a voting right, I will vote for him.
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