A Professor of International Law and Jurisprudence, Akin Oyebode, in this interview with TUNDE AJAJA, talks about Buhari’s government and the implication of some of the steps he has taken so far
You were optimistic about Muhammadu Buhari’s government before he was sworn in as the president, after 100 days in office, are you satisfied with his performance so far?
He is still revving for take-off, like an airplane, but he’s taken three months already and most people are somewhat agitated about the delay of the take-off. But he has said Nigerians should bear with him and that he met a lot of rot in government which he wanted to clear before he could launch his programme. But I think one thing that nobody can take away from him is his reputation as an incorruptible public officer who is held high in the estimation of the people on the basis of his probity, transparency and anti-corruption stance.
These you can’t take away from him, and it seems his persona has impacted positively on all and sundry as people now behave appropriately because of the respect or the fear that they have for him. That for me is a foretaste of good things to come. I think after he announces his ministers and he starts filling the 4,000 odd positions, like the boards, and the whole architecture of his government is put in place, then of course we can expect that he would hit the ground running. Right now, he’s just trying to hit the ground, not to talk of running.
Were you one of those agitated by his appointments?
I had some discomfiture about his appointments, especially in the recent past. Those who take the toll say he’s appointed 32 persons and majority of them come from the North. So, he’s been described as a hegemonist, an irredentist and somebody even said he should go and be the king of the North. Well, he said his appointments are based on merit, but my worry about that is merit abounds throughout Nigeria. If you look hard enough, you find men and women of great qualification, quality and high moral standards that can be appointed. So, I think he needs to widen his cycle. It comes across as too exclusive. He needs an inclusive apparatus. I think that’s the only thing I have found worrisome, and then the delay in appointing ministers, which he said he would cure by the end of this month. He made a number of promises to the electorate in terms of changing Nigeria for the better and he enjoyed tremendous goodwill internationally. People believe that this is the man who can turn the fortune of Nigeria around. So, he should explore that tremendous appeal and goodwill that he enjoys to the benefit of our country. There is no doubt that he means well. So, I will give him the benefit of the doubt for his governance and his ability to steer the ship of the state safely to the bank.
Some people are already calling him Baba-go-slow. Do you share the view that he has abandoned the economy in the name of fighting corruption?
I don’t think that will be totally correct. He came with three important objectives, namely anti-corruption, the economy, in terms of mass employment, and insurgency. You can’t talk of his having derailed or abandoning the objectives in favour of just the brouhaha against corruption. That will not be correct. It’s when the government is firmly in place that he can make policy statement which will guard and guide his team in terms of pursuing those objectives. I don’t think we should hang him precipitately. Give him the benefit of the doubt, and three months are not too long in four years.
Do you think the delay in appointing ministers could be because he is alleged to be surrounded by people who have questions to answer?
Maybe the president is being circumspect; being very careful, in selecting the prime movers of his administration. You can’t beguile him for that. He’s doing his best to ensure that he has a credible and effective team. He asked Nigerians to give him time and the time is almost up, so we have about one or two weeks. For me, we have waited this long, two weeks will not do us any damage. He has to identify people, check their credentials and see if they are people that will enhance the administration or detract from his image. Some people call him sole administrator and some less charitable call him a dictator, well, the time is up for the one-man dictatorship. In another week or two, we’ll have the team and we can judge by the competence, profile, the antecedents and record of those men and women that he would put in office to assist him. There are so many things to calculate if you want to appoint people that are credible. If Buhari fails, we will tell him.
But people like Ekiti State Governor, Mr. Ayo Fayose, have been antagonising the President, saying he is not a saint and the anti-corruption war is a gimmick. What’s your view on that?
To those who are saying Buhari is not a saint, saints abound only in heaven. Everybody carries some baggage of inadequacy. We are all humans and only God is perfect. So, you have to take the good with the bad and the ugly. And nobody should pontificate or be sanctimonious about this notion of my Mercedes is bigger than yours. I don’t want to comment on the opinion expressed by the fellow that you cited. For me, I want to be charitable to him but I think he likes to stand off in order to be seen as being relevant or courageous. But he needs to know that bravado is one step ahead of bravery. There are certain times when silence is golden, especially when you don’t have a track record that is enviable. A governor has more business to pursue than badmouthing the President. You can’t antagonise the President of Nigeria that you might need favours from. He’s a human being too. And some of us even feel sorry for him the way he is carrying on because Ekiti people are not that brought up. We are brought up to be civil, polite, humble and respect elders. Decorum and propriety are things that we inculcate in our upbringing. Those who live in glass house do not throw stones, but he has a right to make his own mistakes.
In the war against corruption, the Peoples Democratic Party is alleging a witch-hunt. Do you see any trace of that since most people being investigated now served with former President Goodluck Jonathan?
I think it will be precipitate to talk of a witch-hunt, more so that we are not under a military dispensation. This is a democratic dispensation where all the procedural safeguards for accused persons are still in place; presumption of innocence, onus of proof on the state or the prosecution, right to counsel of your choice. All those appurtenances of good governance, rule of law and due process will have to be honoured. It’s not the court of Star Chamber like in the 50th century in England. Really, if you have no skeleton in your cupboard, you have no cause to be afraid. As the Yoruba say, the murderer is afraid of the knife being wielded in front of him. So, I think they should just keep their peace. Nigerians are in a position to judge when people are being persecuted. I’m not sure Buhari would want to persecute them; he would want to prosecute them. There is a difference between the two. We have courts, lawyers and laws. So, no cause for alarm.
It has also been alleged that the anti-corruption war so far has been done in the media. Do you share that view?
Propaganda is part and parcel of conscientisation. You want to create a necessary climate that is conducive for going after corrupt elements, those who have caused tremendous adversity, so there is some truth in their allegation that there is some propaganda going on, yes, I will concede that, but the same president has appointed an advisory committee of jurists, criminologists and experts to advise him on what to do on the anti-corruption war. Then, there are institutions in place, like the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission and the Independent Corrupt Practices and Other Related Offences Commission, which might need to be retuned or re-oiled to make them more efficient and effective. So, I will not really lose any sleep over the government conducting a media campaign to influence the people to seize and desist from collaborating or consulting with corrupt elements. Corruption is a serious malady that warrants genuine action, so, quite sincerely, we should not leave the war against corruption to the government. It should be a war by the people. For me, those who are running helter skelter are those who have certain malfeasance and are afraid of the day of judgement. That is my assessment of all the people decrying the anti-corruption campaign. Of course, there is a campaign going on, call it propaganda or media war, the government is shouting from the rooftops that corruption is an evil which has to be stopped if we do not want it to stop Nigeria.
With the revelations that we have had so far, the current administration makes it look like the economy would have collapsed if Jonathan had won the election. Do you think it was that bad?
Look, you have just answered the question. I can’t even envisage more of the same. What we had was flagrant abuse of the mandate of the people, impunity, arbitrariness and the sense of I’m-beyond-the-law. So, we just thank the good Lord that he saved us from that odium of four more years of Jonathan. The PDP used to brag that they were going to be in power for 100 years, then they reversed it to 60, and now they barely made 16. It shows that the capacity of Nigerians should not be ignored. In Ghana, the opposition has defeated a sitting government thrice, and that’s why people think Ghana has been more developed politically than Nigeria. So, the responsibility is on Buhari to deliver because this is the last chance he has. He’s come on a rescue mission to rescue Nigeria from imminent collapse which would have happened if Goodluck Ebele Jonathan had been re-elected. So, as somebody said, the man is called Goodluck but he gave Nigeria bad luck. So, Buhari came to rescue us from that.
The Nigeria Labour Congress and other interest groups are advocating capital punishment for corrupt persons, do you subscribe to it?
Nigeria has a choice. Do we want to go the way of China and execute corrupt people, or we try such people, prosecute them if they are guilty, lock them in jail and throw away the keys; life jail, and then you confiscate their ill-gotten wealth and properties that they have illegally acquired. So, there are all sorts of ways and means to deal with it. We can follow the option of countries like Singapore and Hong Kong, which used to be a very corrupt place. But in the last 20 years, Singapore has been washed clean of the odium of corruption, a drastic disease warrants drastic remedies, but we can’t change the law in the middle of the game. Laws are usually prospective. If you make corruption a crime punishable by capital punishment, that will be contrary to the tenets of jurisprudence that we adhere to. My old teacher, Lon Fuller, used to say that retroactive laws are the brutal absurdity of commanding a man today to do something yesterday. So, laws have to be prospective. It is subsequent acts of corruption that would be treated like that if we have such a law. It can’t take effect retroactively, but I think I will be comfortable with life imprisonment, although people might say it’s expensive, with feeding them in jail and such. Look at the President of Guatemala who has just been convicted. So, if somebody has been caught, like the lawyers say inflagrante delicto (i.e. you are caught hands down), then you face the music. I won’t advocate execution by firing squad. That might be drastic for now but if we have the evidence that it is the solution, so be it, but it won’t be retroactive.
On the asset declaration by the President and the vice-president, some people were shocked while some are saying the declaration wasn’t holistic. What’s your take?
I wasn’t shocked because the first time when his assets were being discussed as a military dictator, he said he took a loan to build his house, and then he had just one house apart from the one in Daura. He’s been known to be a frugal, ramrod straight person who has not evinced the normal preoccupation of Nigerians for primitive accumulation of wealth. So, he stands true to type. His deputy is even wealthier than himself. Some Nigerians will never be satisfied. The same way they wanted to vilify Dr. Kayode Fayemi when he declared his assets, is the same way some doubting Thomas are now saying that the declaration was not true. But if anybody has any evidence of falsification or over-declaration or under-declaration, let the person go ahead and challenge it.
Were you one of those agitated by his appointments?
I had some discomfiture about his appointments, especially in the recent past. Those who take the toll say he’s appointed 32 persons and majority of them come from the North. So, he’s been described as a hegemonist, an irredentist and somebody even said he should go and be the king of the North. Well, he said his appointments are based on merit, but my worry about that is merit abounds throughout Nigeria. If you look hard enough, you find men and women of great qualification, quality and high moral standards that can be appointed. So, I think he needs to widen his cycle. It comes across as too exclusive. He needs an inclusive apparatus. I think that’s the only thing I have found worrisome, and then the delay in appointing ministers, which he said he would cure by the end of this month. He made a number of promises to the electorate in terms of changing Nigeria for the better and he enjoyed tremendous goodwill internationally. People believe that this is the man who can turn the fortune of Nigeria around. So, he should explore that tremendous appeal and goodwill that he enjoys to the benefit of our country. There is no doubt that he means well. So, I will give him the benefit of the doubt for his governance and his ability to steer the ship of the state safely to the bank.
Some people are already calling him Baba-go-slow. Do you share the view that he has abandoned the economy in the name of fighting corruption?
I don’t think that will be totally correct. He came with three important objectives, namely anti-corruption, the economy, in terms of mass employment, and insurgency. You can’t talk of his having derailed or abandoning the objectives in favour of just the brouhaha against corruption. That will not be correct. It’s when the government is firmly in place that he can make policy statement which will guard and guide his team in terms of pursuing those objectives. I don’t think we should hang him precipitately. Give him the benefit of the doubt, and three months are not too long in four years.
Do you think the delay in appointing ministers could be because he is alleged to be surrounded by people who have questions to answer?
Maybe the president is being circumspect; being very careful, in selecting the prime movers of his administration. You can’t beguile him for that. He’s doing his best to ensure that he has a credible and effective team. He asked Nigerians to give him time and the time is almost up, so we have about one or two weeks. For me, we have waited this long, two weeks will not do us any damage. He has to identify people, check their credentials and see if they are people that will enhance the administration or detract from his image. Some people call him sole administrator and some less charitable call him a dictator, well, the time is up for the one-man dictatorship. In another week or two, we’ll have the team and we can judge by the competence, profile, the antecedents and record of those men and women that he would put in office to assist him. There are so many things to calculate if you want to appoint people that are credible. If Buhari fails, we will tell him.
But people like Ekiti State Governor, Mr. Ayo Fayose, have been antagonising the President, saying he is not a saint and the anti-corruption war is a gimmick. What’s your view on that?
To those who are saying Buhari is not a saint, saints abound only in heaven. Everybody carries some baggage of inadequacy. We are all humans and only God is perfect. So, you have to take the good with the bad and the ugly. And nobody should pontificate or be sanctimonious about this notion of my Mercedes is bigger than yours. I don’t want to comment on the opinion expressed by the fellow that you cited. For me, I want to be charitable to him but I think he likes to stand off in order to be seen as being relevant or courageous. But he needs to know that bravado is one step ahead of bravery. There are certain times when silence is golden, especially when you don’t have a track record that is enviable. A governor has more business to pursue than badmouthing the President. You can’t antagonise the President of Nigeria that you might need favours from. He’s a human being too. And some of us even feel sorry for him the way he is carrying on because Ekiti people are not that brought up. We are brought up to be civil, polite, humble and respect elders. Decorum and propriety are things that we inculcate in our upbringing. Those who live in glass house do not throw stones, but he has a right to make his own mistakes.
In the war against corruption, the Peoples Democratic Party is alleging a witch-hunt. Do you see any trace of that since most people being investigated now served with former President Goodluck Jonathan?
I think it will be precipitate to talk of a witch-hunt, more so that we are not under a military dispensation. This is a democratic dispensation where all the procedural safeguards for accused persons are still in place; presumption of innocence, onus of proof on the state or the prosecution, right to counsel of your choice. All those appurtenances of good governance, rule of law and due process will have to be honoured. It’s not the court of Star Chamber like in the 50th century in England. Really, if you have no skeleton in your cupboard, you have no cause to be afraid. As the Yoruba say, the murderer is afraid of the knife being wielded in front of him. So, I think they should just keep their peace. Nigerians are in a position to judge when people are being persecuted. I’m not sure Buhari would want to persecute them; he would want to prosecute them. There is a difference between the two. We have courts, lawyers and laws. So, no cause for alarm.
It has also been alleged that the anti-corruption war so far has been done in the media. Do you share that view?
Propaganda is part and parcel of conscientisation. You want to create a necessary climate that is conducive for going after corrupt elements, those who have caused tremendous adversity, so there is some truth in their allegation that there is some propaganda going on, yes, I will concede that, but the same president has appointed an advisory committee of jurists, criminologists and experts to advise him on what to do on the anti-corruption war. Then, there are institutions in place, like the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission and the Independent Corrupt Practices and Other Related Offences Commission, which might need to be retuned or re-oiled to make them more efficient and effective. So, I will not really lose any sleep over the government conducting a media campaign to influence the people to seize and desist from collaborating or consulting with corrupt elements. Corruption is a serious malady that warrants genuine action, so, quite sincerely, we should not leave the war against corruption to the government. It should be a war by the people. For me, those who are running helter skelter are those who have certain malfeasance and are afraid of the day of judgement. That is my assessment of all the people decrying the anti-corruption campaign. Of course, there is a campaign going on, call it propaganda or media war, the government is shouting from the rooftops that corruption is an evil which has to be stopped if we do not want it to stop Nigeria.
With the revelations that we have had so far, the current administration makes it look like the economy would have collapsed if Jonathan had won the election. Do you think it was that bad?
Look, you have just answered the question. I can’t even envisage more of the same. What we had was flagrant abuse of the mandate of the people, impunity, arbitrariness and the sense of I’m-beyond-the-law. So, we just thank the good Lord that he saved us from that odium of four more years of Jonathan. The PDP used to brag that they were going to be in power for 100 years, then they reversed it to 60, and now they barely made 16. It shows that the capacity of Nigerians should not be ignored. In Ghana, the opposition has defeated a sitting government thrice, and that’s why people think Ghana has been more developed politically than Nigeria. So, the responsibility is on Buhari to deliver because this is the last chance he has. He’s come on a rescue mission to rescue Nigeria from imminent collapse which would have happened if Goodluck Ebele Jonathan had been re-elected. So, as somebody said, the man is called Goodluck but he gave Nigeria bad luck. So, Buhari came to rescue us from that.
The Nigeria Labour Congress and other interest groups are advocating capital punishment for corrupt persons, do you subscribe to it?
Nigeria has a choice. Do we want to go the way of China and execute corrupt people, or we try such people, prosecute them if they are guilty, lock them in jail and throw away the keys; life jail, and then you confiscate their ill-gotten wealth and properties that they have illegally acquired. So, there are all sorts of ways and means to deal with it. We can follow the option of countries like Singapore and Hong Kong, which used to be a very corrupt place. But in the last 20 years, Singapore has been washed clean of the odium of corruption, a drastic disease warrants drastic remedies, but we can’t change the law in the middle of the game. Laws are usually prospective. If you make corruption a crime punishable by capital punishment, that will be contrary to the tenets of jurisprudence that we adhere to. My old teacher, Lon Fuller, used to say that retroactive laws are the brutal absurdity of commanding a man today to do something yesterday. So, laws have to be prospective. It is subsequent acts of corruption that would be treated like that if we have such a law. It can’t take effect retroactively, but I think I will be comfortable with life imprisonment, although people might say it’s expensive, with feeding them in jail and such. Look at the President of Guatemala who has just been convicted. So, if somebody has been caught, like the lawyers say inflagrante delicto (i.e. you are caught hands down), then you face the music. I won’t advocate execution by firing squad. That might be drastic for now but if we have the evidence that it is the solution, so be it, but it won’t be retroactive.
On the asset declaration by the President and the vice-president, some people were shocked while some are saying the declaration wasn’t holistic. What’s your take?
I wasn’t shocked because the first time when his assets were being discussed as a military dictator, he said he took a loan to build his house, and then he had just one house apart from the one in Daura. He’s been known to be a frugal, ramrod straight person who has not evinced the normal preoccupation of Nigerians for primitive accumulation of wealth. So, he stands true to type. His deputy is even wealthier than himself. Some Nigerians will never be satisfied. The same way they wanted to vilify Dr. Kayode Fayemi when he declared his assets, is the same way some doubting Thomas are now saying that the declaration was not true. But if anybody has any evidence of falsification or over-declaration or under-declaration, let the person go ahead and challenge it.
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